Migrating challenge from Mach4 to EX controller

I though I’d showcase some challenges I’ve seen with the new ex controller upgrade. I have the new EX controller 3 axis with option for the rotary and hooked up a 4hp spindle. The software and connection went pretty well, missed the VFD upgrade for correct value, would trigger a 9030 spindle fault error. Even after parameter update, still seeing the spindle fault and prevents the unit to be under power. The solution that solves that issue was quite fortunate, I tested the software and in my situation the spindle fault is not trigger with softare set with router. So, by creating two profiles, one for router and one for spindle, that fault error is not triggered, no clue as to why, but solved that issue.

Next, familiarize my self with the touch plate and tool height setter. Managed to go throug the process of setting the bit on work piece and tested with a square cut and carve circle. Must say, the controller is producing must smoother cuts. But the issue, I’m having is the sequence I’ve noticed with Mach 4 is not duplicated with centroid. The bit can be centered on the touch plate, if I use the left bottom corner, the bit will make contact on the right for X axis, moves to center, then moves up to make contact for Y axis, moves up and position at bottom left corner of work piece. With EX, the sequence is bit odd, the program starts the same way, position bit in center of touch plate, goes to right for X axis, but instead on going to center point, goes to the opposite side of the touch plate, then moves up and makes contact in the curve region of the plate, then moves up and reposition several inches off from the work piece. What is really odd, I made a circle temple with VCarve pro and, when file is loaded on centroid, it shows a perfect circle on screen, but the cnc carved an oval shape as if the file was elongated.

Is the elongated part of the circle on the X axis as well? If so, my first guess is that the steps per unit on it are too many for the x axis.

Interesting observation! The circle was drawn on VCarve with a radius of 2.5 inches. I just measured on the Y axis and it is spot on at 5 inch, but on the X axis, I measure 10 inches. I re-check the motor settings in the motor /jog tab and all three motors are set at default value (2000 steps/rev & 1.01889 revs/in). The issue i’m seeing is the sequence shown in the auto touch plate video match what I was remember experiencing with Mach4, but with centroid the Y axis calibration is not following the proper sequence and the bit wonders off the piece, but centroid DRO indicates a 0.001 X and 0.001 Y values, clearly there is a calibration issue! many thanks for your input, can use the help!

Did you get the servos or stay with steppers? If you are steppers, then maybe your drivers have the wrong setting for microstepping. You already verified that you have the same settings for X and Y in CNC12, so check the dip switches on the drivers. X and Y dipswitch settings should be the same. If I remember right, those settings go in multiples of 2, so that sounds like a likely problem.

If you have servos, I’m clueless.

I started my build with NEMA 34 two years ago and was looking to upgrade to servo motors, for smoother work. The AVID folks gave me some good feedback and for the price difference & usage, I kept the NEMA 34 and upgraded the controller only, for the smooth work upgrade . The setting in CNC12 are default values when selecting the avidPRO layout. So, dipswitch, would never though! I’ll go take a look!

They are real easy to see and get to on the EX controller too.

Well, did look at both the old and new controller! Both are using the same driver CRP8070 (5 in total, 1 for Z, 1 for X, 2 for Y and last one for rotary option) and crossed check the dipswitch setting, same on both units, pin 1,2,3 in on position, pin 4,5 in off position, pin 6,7 in on position and 8 in off position. The drivers are clearly in a better position in the ex controller, thanks for the input!

While this is a clever workaround, what you really need to do to solve this is reprogram your VFD:

https://www.avidcnc.com/support/instructions/electronics/ex/manual/ex_vfd_update/

On stepper systems the VFD has it’s own input. If the VFD is in fault the controller will not run, and you can get around this with a software change. On servo systems the VFD fault shares the same input as the drives. In that case you can physically bypass the VFD fault, or program your VFD to send the correct signals to the control. Instructions are here:

https://www.avidcnc.com/support/instructions/electronics/ex/manual/ex_vfd_update/

You really want to follow our prescribed way. This ads a nice protection into the system. It won’t allow you to cut if your spindle isn’t working properly (or on). And if the spindle does stall/fail during a cut this will stop the machine motion for you.

This is one the main reasons we switched to this system!

The direction of XY probing depends on how you have the touch plate mounted to the material. If you have it on the bottom left corner and on top of the material the touch plate utility will probe to the right and to the top, this is to keep the plate tight to the material. If you had the probe “inside” of an object and you were probing that same bottom left corner, it would probe down and left to push the plate tight into the corner.

This sounds like you have some physical slop in your machine.

Check this guide for help troubleshooting that: X and Y Axes - Troubleshooting

Good afternoon Eric

The VFD parameter 3.0 was upgraded to a new value (8 to 22) as instructed on your website, and I’ve scouted AVID’s website and forum for any troubleshooting advice. The symptoms I’m seeing are not listed in AVID’s listing of possible issues. Now, at this time, IF my PC CNC12 configuration is set up with only one profile with the Spindle, I will continue to see this Spindle fault error in centroid and will prevent the unit to be under power. I’ve checked and re-check AVID’s troubleshooting guide, this error is not listed! I do not have servo motors, my unit was built with NEMA 34 and under MACH 4, I did not have this spindle fault issue. With the dual profile, I can put the unit under power and also power the spindle, no fault error appears, and as I stated, the VFD command value was upgraded to new value. If there is a parameter I’ve missing, I’m totally lost on this one. I was hoping that perhaps someone on the forum experienced the same issue, looks like I’m the first one.

With the CNC under power, the next issue I’m seeing relates to the auto touch plate on centroid, the moving sequence is not identical to the ex controller video on AVID’s website and the sequence I’ve seen with MACH4. It does not matter, which corner I use, I’m seeing the same issue. With the auto touch plate feature setup, the software will give a prompt to move the cutting bit toward the touch plate on the selected corner, and user will manually move the cnc toward the center of the plate. One nice feature is the new CNC pendant, that one works will a charm, quite please with it, instead of using keyboard to job the unit. Once the magnetic contact is made, the bit is lowered to the center of the touch plate and the piece zeroing sequence starts with the bit moving toward the inside of the work piece to set the X axis. So far so good!, Then, as I expect, the cutting should move back to its center touch point on the touch plate and move the cutting bit perpendicular for the Y axis and again toward the inside of the work piece, and finishing the sequence with the cutting bit being moved to the work piece zero position with a preset Z offset. I did not use the inside setting thus far in work I was doing with MACH4, always on the outside, with the auto touch plate firmly set on the bottom corner. The sequence with centroid has shifted somehow, the cutting bit does not travel back to it original contact point once the bit made contact for the X axis. Instead, the cutting bit is reaching the opposite side, does not stop at it original contact point, then moves perpendicular to make contact in the curve portion of the auto touch plate. The sequence ends with the bit wondering several inches from the work piece zero, but the DRO shows a 0.001 for X and 0.001 for Y. I tested with a simple circle carving with a radius of 2.5 inches, the the carving shows an elongated oval profile with Y at 5 inches across, but at 10 for X. The cutting depth was spot on at 0.25 with 4 passes as set in VCarve.

I made a support call last night for this issue and added several pictures this moring showcasing this issue. I wanted to add pics to my post in support of my issue, but I’m not seing an add picture feature. So far the migration from MACH 4 to Centroid is proving to be a bit difficult, while being a valuable learning experience in CNC. Any help is most welcome.

This is the section of the troubleshooting guide that lists that error:

https://www.avidcnc.com/support/troubleshooting/cnc12ExControlsProCnc/cnc12ExController/#spindle-fault-is-active-and-cannot-be-cleared-from

I would follow that and make sure that your VFD is setup correctly.

Are you saying you have one profile set to use the spindle and one set to use some other cutting tool?

Could you do me a favor? Close CNC12 and then go to the profile manager. Right click on the profile that you’re getting the spindle fault in and click “export”. That will generate a file. Once you get that file go to FileMail.com and upload it. Then post a link right here (Filemail is free)

This way I can take a look at your profile to see if I can figure out what is happening.

In what way is it different? There may have been some subtle tweaks we made to the video, but no major workflow/UI changes were done.

While we call this the “touch plate utility” like we did in Mach, we redesigned it from scratch, and in many ways it’s VERY different than Mach.

I would recommend checking out this video if you haven’t already:

I’m not sure I totally follow what’s going on with your sequence of events, but put simply this is how it should work:

  • You pick an inside or outside corner you want to probe to
  • You put the bit over the touch plate and press Cycle Start
  • The bit will touch in Z, then in two sides of the plate
  • After it’s done it will go to where XY zero is, or to say another way when the routine is done your bit will be at your XY zero (and it will be above the workpiece)

The direction it probes the two sides depends on what corner you are probing to, and whether or not it’s an inside or outside corner. It’s critical that you make your probe screen look like what you are doing in real life:

Are you saying that you wanted to cut a circle and you got an oval? If that’s the case there may be something physically wrong with your machine that needs correcting (see my previous post)

Is it possible for you to make a video of this touch plate issue to post here?

You could video with your phone and put it in Google Photos and share a link here or use something like FileMail.com to attach a video. It would be really helpful.

Good evening Eric

I"ll reference the video in this thread and looking to duplicate the sequence from 2:13 to 2:47 min. That is the sequence I saw with MACH 4 control, and trying to duplicate with centroid. that is the sequence I’m avoid issue with.

So far I’ve always used the outside bottom corner setting to position the auto touch plate to set the work piece XY zero. The sequence as I’m seeing in the video goes as follow: the software prompt the user to jog the cutting bit in the center of the touch plate. I did that with the new pendant, no issue. I active the sequence and the bit touches the center plate moves up and travel horizontaly to set the X axis. So far my unit does exactly that. The issue is, the cutting bit should go back to the center contact point of the touch plate and travel vertically to set the Y axis. It does not do that, instead it travels past the center contact point and makes contact with the opposite side of the touch plate. Then software prompt to turn the flute and moves vertically to hit the curve portion of the touch plate. Once complete, the bit should go to the piece XY zero, but instead wanders off several inches off! Not sure why! I cut copy the files you requested and can certainly make a video of the sequence I’m seeing.

many thanks for your help!

Sounds like your x steps have been double since both the carve and the touch plate are in a matching error.

Ok, that’s a good reference.

In some ways the touch plate utility here is like Mach, but in many ways it’s not. I would not compare the two.

Ok, I am understanding better what is happening.

Let’s do two things:

See if you can get me a video. That would be SUPER helpful in figuring this out.

Also I would like a copy of your CNC12 profile. To do this:

Close CNC12

Go into the Profile Manager and find your profile that you used to laucn CNC12 (And the one you saw this error on

Right click on that profile and select “Export” it will create a file

Go to FileMail.com and upload the file there. Then post the link here. This will let me look at your profile to see what’s going on.

Sup Eric

video of the auto touch plate sequence and export of two profiles!

A+

Update November 8

I spend a few hours with folks from CNC support this evening and I would like togive an hand of applause! You guys ROCK! (Thanks Liere).

I was seeing a odd behavior with my unit with an un-usual stretch on the X axis that turn a simple circle into an oval shape and outside of piece work dimension.

I put Liere’s teachings in practice and BINGO! I made a test square and circle file from VCarve Pro. The dimensions and positions are spot on! perfect circle with a 2.5 inch radius and set exactly at 5.5 x 5.5 (Y/X). The square is exactly 8x8 with 1.5 x 1.5 XY offset. The values all adds up! Plus correct depth at 0.250", cutting with 4 passes. Before and after pics! The smooth travel and change of direction is absolutely amazing! no more stiffness, rigid direction change and skipping a beat.

Not seeing the elongated oval shape anymore!

The spindle cut perfectly and the tool height setter is a gem, will need to learn more on how to use this one!

As Liere said, the auto touch plate worked exactly as it should and the bit travels to the piece XY0 at the end of that sequence with the correct z value!

I would never though to download a fresh profile!

Many thanks for your help, greatly appreciated!

Question: how to include a picture in the thread?

Now on to work with my new toy!

Curious what was the root cause of the elongation?

Same question on my end! In my first installation trial, I downloaded the router file profile for the CNC12 software and followed the installation and setting instructions carefully.

In short, we re-installed the controls for my unit and I got to learn a few new tricks. The previous profile I used to set my unit seems to be the root cause. We downloaded the same router profile, rename the file and went throught a step by step instructions with bare bone settings, plus no change on the controller, and I carefully updated the VFD parameter 3 setting as instructed a few days earlier.

With uploading the same VCarve circle file, we executed the file a few inches above the work piece and monitored the displacement of the X and Y axis. On the first trial we coud see an equal value for both X and Y. So, conclusion, the issue looked to be from software, as to what caused this remains unknow. I’m told this issue I reported is unique. R&D tested my previous profiles without any issues and is an on-going troubleshooting at the moment.

Anyway, for me, my unit is now properly setup and functional.

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