Hello, I’ve had this cnc for about 10 months, and I am noticing rust on the bottom of the spindle and black spots on the inside of the spindle. How can I go about cleaning this and preventing this in the future? I did start to use nickel anti seize just a few months ago as instructed by AVID support to help the toolholders release easier, but other than that I do not use any product on the spindle. Any help is appreciated thank you.
I’m pinging engineering for you to get an answer.
What is with the dinged up finish…is that how it came? It looks like it has been abused. I’ve replaced 20 year old wheel bearings that look cleaner than that thing.
Ok thank you Eric!
It is very humid here in Tennessee so I wipe this stuff: ColletCare Spindle Care on every exposed piece of metal I can. If something begins to show surface rust, I’ll put a few drops on the rust and either rub it with 0000 steel wool, or use a brass brush on my Dremel. The ColletCare simultaneously removes the rust and forms a protective film on the metal to prevent future oxidation. They now have a more persistent version.
My brand new AV40S has started to show a little surface rust also, so it got a generous wipe-down of Collet Care . .
Talked with our engineer… The super soft OOOO steel wool is a good way to clean it.
For protection I’d guess that collet care stuff is essentially in some way this:
The takeaway is that you want something like this that’s inert so there’s no galvanic reaction (some anti seize goops have other metals in them)
If/when you use this stuff you want to basically put it on like car wax. Just coat it a little and wipe it down
I will note that with any spindle lubricant or anti-seize, make sure you get the lube where it’s needed (spindle, tapers, outside of collet) and NOT where it is not wanted (router bit shaft, inside bore of collets).
If you lube the bit’s shaft, it is more likely to get pulled out while cutting.
My policy is to clean all new bits and collets with a degreaser before use, because I’ve had new bits get pulled out before.
Thanks, that would be a nasty surprise.
It was. It ruined a wedding present.
Maybe Avid needs to offer a branded “swear jar” you put a dollar in every time you say a bad word around your machine. Use the money for upgrades, tools, etc.
@FireNWater That colletcare stuff is great, even in bone-dry Colorado I was getting a little bit of rust. The owner replied here when I was asking a similar question: ER32 Collet+Nut Damage - #8 by TDA
If that is indeed rust your spindle may not be true stainless steel. Look around your shop and see if there is anything else rusting. Is your shop in the garage? Do you charge a vehicle in there? I have a friend who bought an electric vehicle and within a couple months all his tools were rusting. In Arizona that shouldn’t be a problem. His tools had been there 20 years and were clean as a whistle. He bought his EV and started charging it in the garage and the problem showed up. Depending on the battery chemistry it could be that during charging there is a release of hydrogen gas significant enough to combine with other items in the garage and eventually deposit as an acid on the tool. I know this may be a remote possibility in your case but when we moved his car outside and cleaned up his tools the problem appeared to have subsided without an extra coating of anything.
Can colletcare be used on anything with a Fe composition?
I would assume so, but I could be wrong. I will re-read the instructions, but the website doesn’t say anything about not putting it on iron. Personally, I wipe it on every piece of exposed metal and use a brass brush + ColletCare in my Dremel tool to remove surface rust. I recently put a de-humidifier in my shop and let it run 24/7 and it has dropped the RH down to 40%. Hopefully that helps here in Tennessee.
I just saw this post and was curious how my 1 year old AV70S was holding up. As you can see rust seems to be forming behind the nut. The machine is in a climate controlled shop and humidity/moisture has never been an issue with other equipment. All cast iron surfaces like band saw, table saw, planer & jointer have never had any rust issues. The more obvious and visible metal surfaces on the CNC like toothed rack, ways and ISO tool holders all stay clean and shiny.
I was able to use 0000 steel wool and ballistol to remove what was visible. Glad I checked this when I did and will continue to monitor in the future.
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Usual preface: I’m with PreciseBits, so while I try to only post general information take everything I say with the understanding that I have a bias.
Can’t tell 100% from the picture. But that doesn’t look like just rust to me. I think you might have fretting from the toolholders. Usually happens when they wear allowing them to “wobble” under load. Check if the toolholders have matching marks.
That said:
I would never use anything like anti-seize in a spindle, toolholder, or collet system in general. Things like that tend to hold onto debris which will then grind away at the precision ground surfaces.
Toolholders in general start to stick from there being debris, lacquer, or other build up in the spindle and/or on the surface of the toolholders. At least for ones in good condition. Keeping the spindle and toolholders clean typically solves this. However, in the steel rule industry we’ve had very good luck using something that also has a dry lube in it like PTFE, boron nitride, tungsten disulfide, etc. Again, as has already been pointed out do NOT get it in the collet bore. If you do, clean it with something like acetone or brake clean. That’s the one place you don’t want any lube of any kind.
It’s not. ColletCare is an in house solution we came up with when the steel rule die industry was having similar issues to this. It was exacerbated by the spindle distributor recommending cleaning with alcohol and Scotch-Bright. It’s much closer to a penetrating oil. Although we specifically use bases with high KO values and help prevent rusting before the additives. We are actually on the 3rd major version. I still cringe about all the collets I killed during testing… Not going to go too much more into this as I already feel like this is close to marketing and I don’t want to do that.
That said it you need something off the shelf or from Amazon I’d recommend a penetrating oil over an anti-seize. Just test it on something to make sure that it’s not leaving behind a tacky residue that will hold onto debris. Once you clean things with it, take off ALL excess oil. It should be really close to dry.
As to the steel wool… When you get to a certain point you need something to clean up the damage. Anything softer than the spindle, toolholder, collet, or whatever you are cleaning will work. I tend to prefer things MUCH softer where possible. It really depends on the spindle as to if steel wool fits that description. It’s much less of a concern in areas without interfacing tapers. What you want to avoid is something that can take off raw steel from the tapers. That will cause runout as there’s basically no way to take it off “evenly”.
Once you’ve cleaned it up it’s again a good place for things like the dry lubes as they can fill some of the pitting and keep things from sticking. Basically rub or “polish” them in. It’s easier if they are in a carrier.
Appreciate the shout out and sharing. Wouldn’t have even seen this without you two.
One clarifying note. I’m not the owner. Just been here for 20+ years.
Hope that’s useful. Let me know if there’s something I can help with.
Thank you Eric!