Like everybody here I have been very interested in Avid’s switch to the EX controller and the servos. However, I’m not sure upgrading makes sense for what I’m doing. Here’s the background - I have a 4x8 Pro, NEMA-34 motor system with the 3.4 HP spindle from May of 2019. While I do some fast production work much of my use of the machine is for smaller 3D carved jobs (all in wood). Most of the time I’m using 1/4" bits. I don’t have a tool changer and am not really interested in setting one up.
While Mach4 isn’t great, it has so far worked fine for me. My understanding is that the servos produce much smoother cuts. That could be really helpful with the 3D work because it would mean less sanding, and that would be fantastic. Also, the Centroid software seems to have a bunch of advantages - reliability, customization, etc.
Cost - If I wanted to upgrade to the new controller and the servos, Avid’s price is $5175 plus shipping, which is a big chunk. The rebate they offered me to return my old controller was $150-500 which is hardly worth it if I have to pay shipping.
If anybody has any opinions I’d love to hear them. Is the delta between what I have now and what I could have possibly worth it?
I’m upgrading to the ex controller for the improved functionality an keeping with nema 34’s all for under 2 G’s the old controller gets packed in same box with a supplied return label I don’t need all the zipo with the servos at this time…
I’m currently testing the EX with my old steppers (thanks to AVID for loaning me a test unit) just to get used to it and test out the smoothness of it with my old steppers. I should have a review video out in a week or so hopefully.
Then I’m converting over to the whole servo kit that I bought so I can tell how much improvement can be attributed to the control vs. the servos.
I haven’t gotten to the smoothness tests yet (still have some laser wiring to do), but so far I really like CNC12 just from the set of features it has. I think the toolsetter that AVID added with this is a great addition, it takes half the work out of manual tool changes, and sets you up for toolchanger later. The upgrade was pretty easy since it was plug and play with the steppers.
So far it hasn’t done a single unexpected thing, which was becoming more and more frequent on my Mach4 setup.
Excellent. I’m looking forward to your conclusions. I had also been having increasing and weird problems with Mach4 but I was using an old computer that barely met spec. I upgraded that a few weeks ago and the system has been much more stable. Still, CNC12 sounds good.
95% of my work is carving 3D topographic maps - mostly for gifts - not a business. Maybe I’m not picky, but a 1/8 inch ball nose bit gives a very smooth finish so I never do any sanding. A 1/4 end mill leaves some barely visible lines in the flat frame area around the 3D areas - never do sanding there either. I have Avid’s 4 by 2 setup with steppers and their controller. I run Mach3 and don’t plan to ever upgrade to Mach4 because of all the problems I have read about here. I have only had one problem in five years with my setup - got a ‘ran out of data’ error code. The files can be a half million lines of code - so I think there was lots of data left! Lol! Never any problem I noticed with loosing steps with the stepper motors. The original AVID setup has been great for me!
I have purchased, but not yet received, my EX upgrade. I’m reusing my steppers and getting a repurposed control box filled with the new electronics, and a wireless pendant. What I am looking forward to are the Acorn features, including everything in the recent Avid videos posted about the use of the touch plate, wireless pendant, etc. That’s all going to make what I do a lot easier and faster. If you just buy what I’m buying, it’s significantly less expensive than moving up to servos. So, I think it will be worth it.
I will really be interested in your review. I already have the Teknic motors so it will be an easy swap of the Smoothstepper and Mach software for the Acorn board and CNC 12 software. I am also interested in the Z axis brake and the tool setter. The current drag brake does not work very well with the Tecknic motor. Hopefully Avid will let me buy pieces instead of the full upgrade.
Another option is to get the ‘native’ Centroid CNC control box built by a highly reputable person like Gary Campbell. I perceive it will be more ‘open access’ and customizable than Avid’s EX. But your support would come more from Centroid than Avid. There are pros and cons to each, but I’m happy to be ‘native’ on my Avid CNC with servo motors and 4th axis.
You really do need to be careful picking the control box builder. I’m out $7500 since the builder I chose never sent the spindle and shipped out of warranty Teknics motors (some not even step and direction compatible) even though I paid for five new servos.
IDK if the servos will be ‘smoother’ than steppers. While the servos are closed loop, they are still step and direction. CNC12 has some very nice, customizable smoothing features that work great.
We have done a lot of enhancements on Centroid, however we have not removed access to any of the native Centroid software features. In fact, in our setup wizard there’s one button that will take you to the full stock Centroid setup interface.
If you wanted to you can just run stock Centroid software on our control, there’s no hardware difference between an Acorn control you buy from us or from Centroid. The difference in buying it from us is that we assemble everything, test it, and support it. This includes servos that we worked with Teknic on for tuning.
I have been running AVIDs CNC 12 for the past couple of months and I really value the added features, reliability and how the toolpaths are executed.
The Tool Check feature is super, and the wireless pendant are game changers.
Also running the AVID laser. I use Vectric Aspire for design work. The laser specific toolpaths in Vectric laser module run much smoother than the converted file concept AVID used for Mach 4.
Finished upgrading to servos this week, so far I like them, the are fast and quite.
If you’re in yankland, and want to go the $150-500 upgrade path, Avid send you a return shipping label. So you just pack the old controller in the same box the new one comes in and send it back postage pre-paid.
Sadly not available to those of us who live in ROW.
Got it! That is good to know. I think my perception arose from seeing people’s difficulties getting solenoid outputs going for ATC and laser PWM wiring. But that is probably explained by the growing pains of trying to get so much rolled out in a short time. I look forward to seeing the wiring diagram for I/O, etc.
I can imagine it might be the case that folks like me with ‘native’ CNC12 might prefer running the Avid build a year from now (if that is possible).
For sure, if this route was available a year ago, I would have done things this way. It would have saved me a lot of money and a ton of heartache.
I have the new EX controller and servos and can say without a doubt there is a difference. The servos are much smoother and they are spot on (within .005) for me. I do a lot of inlays and need the repeatability for sure. I am still learning CNC and there are a few more steps to get a job going but I think its a game changer. I do not do this as a job but as a hobby/side hustle. I am sure I could have stuck it out with what I had but why not make things better if its possible.
And just to add on to this… The amount you get for a trade in on your existing controller very much depends on what you’re trading in. Support will be happy to evaluate what you have so you have a clear picture of what the upgrade cost will be.
THIS! This was a massive company wide effort to get these new controls rolled out. On top of that we’re trying to help all of those CNC Depot users get up and running to. We’re making progress and I suspect over the next few weeks we’ll all be in a much better spot.
We are working on publishing that. We’ll have a technical manual just like the one we currently have for Mach so folks like you can figure out all of the IO.
There’s no reason why you can’t do that right now. We put a nice skin on CNC12, and just automated the setup process, but you can get in there and change whatever you want…
I would love to hear about your process for doing 3D topo maps. I have property on Douglas Lake in TN, and I would love to create maps of our lake, and the process still eludes me.
Scott, I will try and put something together that describes my process. It sounds like you want to do a very small area. I do much larger areas - typically an entire state - so you may want to start looking for a high resolution DEM from a LIDAR data set from your local county or state. Otherwise you may not be happy with the result.
Also, there are lots of YouTube videos on various processes. I use QGIS to produce the STL file so you may want to start looking at that software - then Vcarve Pro to generate the Code. QGIS is free and can be downloaded from their site.
I usually use 1 arc second data or GoTopo30 data from USGS National Map website.
Attached are a couple photos of a recent carving of California to show the detail from these data sets.
This was a massive company wide effort to get these new controls rolled out. On top of that we’re trying to help all of those CNC Depot users get up and running to. We’re making progress and I suspect over the next few weeks we’ll all be in a much better spot.
