I’m having an occassional issue with the ISO30 being pushed through the Plastic Tool Holder on the ATC Rack. It is kind of a bummer when tool meets floor. I broke another one. I’m sure I could overcome this by forking out another $5 - 6,000 for servos (maybe - jury is still out on how to sneak that by my wife). Same tool, and holder so it got me thinking …
Can you folks give your thoughts on whether this 3d print would be a good solution, and what type of material you might use instead of PLA or PETG? Too brittle. Has anyone experimented with PAHT-CF or TPU?
Before someone states the obvious, I acknowledge the AVID replacement is probably way cheaper than the time and expense of making one - but that’s not the point is it? LOL!
Tool holders should not be getting pushed through like that. Sounds like there might be a Z height issue. Sounds like you have steppers… do you have “verify location” switched on in the ATC app?
Man, I can’t squeak one past you! I agree and really appreciate your help. I always have the tool checked before a job start, or zeroing. It happens after I do a tool check during a job, or cancel a job mid-stream, and forget to have a tool height check before putting the tool away (or changing tools). It never happens when I check the height(s) before running a job or after as long as the job was not cancelled or paused.
I haven’t asked you for help because I need to go back to basics and make certain the table is square. And, I’m testing the beta too, but haven’t had a chance to reset all the tool holders and try to reproduce the issue.
The tool holder I created was a result of experiencing the loss of an $80 bit! I am still in the anger/demial phase. LOL! Plus, I broke one of the plastic holders and need a quick replacement while one is on order.
I plan on resetting all the tool holders this weekend on the Beta version, and then stopping a job, or canceling a job and seeing if that is a mechanical issue - I haven’t checked the square since I set up the table.
I can’t comment on what is actually causing the drop, but I would note that I never trust tool exchanges over open space above concrete. I always have my manual tool change position inside the table perimeter by a foot just in case I drop a tool.
So in this case, I would add some netting or something under the tool rack area so it would at least catch a tool holder if it falls through before it hits the concrete. Those things are like a jelly sandwich, if you drop them they always land on the floor good side down.
I’ve had good luck with ABS and ABS GF filaments. Good combo of strength and flex. You need a heated chamber for good results (seems like this is common now).
Right on! A net would have been much better than the fibre board I used. I suspect calisthenics were involved in the double twist summersault off the fibre board to the concrete.
Remember if you change the shape of your machine by squaring it all of your tool holder locations are now invalid.
Our ATC system should not be dropping tools. If it is, pay close attention to whats happening, if they’re being pushed too far into the holders that might be a z height issue.
Set that “verify location” feature on and make sure it’s calibrated. That will tell you if you lose position and it will stop a tool change before stuff like this happens.
I’m all for a clever workaround with 3D printed stuff, but the root issue here needs to be solved.
Thanks Eric. Each tool chage is Verify, and Measure. It has caught me by surprise a couple of times, however. I do not think it is a square issue (that was just something you and Rocky had mentioned to someone at the seminar to pay attention to).
It has happened twice with a larger tool, same holder, after I stoped the project and reloaded a new one beginning with the larger same tool. One time I stopped the project, and anothet time I did a tool check and resumed. Each was without a height check. It shouldn’t matter, but I’m going to try to recreate it and use my tool catcher (or a net) next time. Start a job, stop it, start a new one with the same tool, and then unload it.
Unrelated, I had a surfacer bit (1.5") break one of the holders. This could be the Y+ stepper issue. Although I was not crazy about using a tool holder for such a wide bit, I convinced myself that it should be within tollerance - well,… I do not think that is related to the pass through issue(s), but do think checking the square is worth eliminating on the Y+ issue.
I promise to circle back when I have a chance to get back to the machine. My J.O.B. is getting in the way this week.
I’m having the same issue with tool holder setting too deep in the tool bins. In my case it’s tool 2 and tool 8. These two seem not to grab the tool holder as tightly as the others. Sometimes it’s no issue and other times it sets it in about a quarter inch too far which causes an error the next time the spindle tries to grab it. It’s been working fine today, until just now. I dropped tool 8 in the holder and didn’t notice it was low, when the machine came back for it later it wouldn’t load. I clicked cycle start to raise the spindle and the holder and a new 1/64" radius 6.2 degree TBN went point first into the concrete floor.
I’m going to reach out to support and see if I can get two new plastic holder holders and see if that resolves the issue. I’m pretty sure it’s not a Z height issue when setting up the bins since I’ve reset them a few times with profile changes. It just happens sporadically.
Next step though is building a safety net as Jim mentioned to eliminate bit damage if they do fall through.
I am just curious - want version are you using? Also, did you do a tool check, of restart a loaded file after stopping short? It doesn’t make sense to me that a Z issue would occur, but that is when I have had the issue twice. No other time that I can associate with it.
It happens with all versions since I installed the ATC. I don’t think it is a Z issue. I’ve relocated the tool bins a few times and it still happens occasionally. It’s just 2 of the 10 bins that I have the issue with. And always the same 2, no issues with the others.
When I first noticed it the machine had been sitting for a while with the two bins will issues had a holder setting too far down. It was in the mid to upper 90’s and when I noticed it, by just happening to glance at the rack from a low level, so when I pulled the holders back up to the proper location they were loose. I think the heat and having them spread open further may have loosened them up a bit. They eventually tightened up a bit but I still have the same problem with the same tool bins 2 and 8.
Interesting. Mine is the same tool, a 1/2" inch shank, 1.5" long composit bit in a ER32 (AVID). So it is the longest in my rack. Do you mind telling me what tool is in that bin, or the IOS30 (AVID or other, and what tool with ER32 or ER20)?
I’ve also been experimenting with 3d printed cup holders. Specifically, the ones Michael designed, but modified to be above my spoilboard with a hole below them for the bit:
I’ve been seeing some tools “spit out” with too much force, causing them to get too low in the holder. My temporary solution has been to put some foam under them so they don’t go too low, and that works for me for now, but isn’t ideal.
I think this happens specifically because of my ATC spindle (HITECO QD-1F), and how long my air hoses are from the pneumatic solenoid. This distance has always caused my tool changes to be a little ‘slow’, as the air has to travel from my control box all the way to the spindle for the release. HITECO recommends having the solenoid on the spindle, and some day I may re-mount it there. The slow tool change means I have to have a long-ish delay waiting for the tool to release.
Now, Avid’s spindle has the solenoid right next to the spindle, so tool changes should be much quicker.
So, with some of my ISO 30 tool holders, after a long tool run and the spindle gets pretty warm, will “spit out” with force because the warmth made the metal get larger. I’ve played with different delays in waiting for the tool to release, but I haven’t settled on a timing solution for this yet.
Hmm… on my machine (linuxcnc, S30C) I’ve added a coordinated Z+ move when I release the tool, just a 1/8" move up at about the right speed so that the tool stays still in the holder instead of pushing it down. I wonder if the Avid code does that, and/or if it would help.
My solenoid is at the spindle, but I’ve been thinking about adding a small air reservoir behind it as the long tube itself slows down the air so you get less effective pressure at the ATC.
I have foam under the whole tool rack, because mistakes happened.
I called support yesterday and walked through the issue. I was also able to get some video of the issue that I attached in response to an email they sent me. I should hear something back today. Right after talking to them I went to put tool 8 away in the tool bin and it pushed too far into the holder and I got it on video. I tried to put the tool back again 3 more times and didn’t have an issue. I got video of that as well.
I don’t think the tool itself has any effect on the issue. The bits in these bins are small 1/4" shaft tools. One is a .25" upcut spiral and the other is a 6.2 degree TBN. My ISO 30 holders are ER20 from Avid.
