👀 New Controls "Unofficial" Launch

[Eric]

@greenleaf

Have you guys experimented at all with automatic tool changers and CNC12

Personally I have. Before working at Avid I built my own ATC system on a production 4x8 machine. Centroid/Acorn rocks for ATC. There’s a lot of documentation and built in software support for it.

[Sergio]

On that note… Any chances Avid will release an ATC spindle? If so, would you say it’ll be released in the next months, quarters, or years?

[Eric]

@Eric

Why did we do this?

In short: To set us (and you!) up for the future.

We’ll have more to say soon, but I can say a couple of things:

-This new platform sets us up to release a lot of neat stuff
-We haven’t stopped working since this launch

[Eric]

@Sergio

On that note… Any chances Avid will release an ATC spindle? If so, would you say it’ll be released in the next months, quarters, or years?

Here’s a good answer for you: ATC is coming! Read on for more details

[greg.obj]

[GeneralYoda]

This is awesome! With the coming ATC and a USB-BOB, it looks like all the work is done for my dreams of a big kid cnc console are coming true!

Now just the wait. It’s already killing me.

Do you know if it will work with other ATC spindles like cncdepot’s?

[Sergio]

Will it be a Hiteco ATC spindle, or a different brand? Curious minds want to know

[grossmsj]

I can’t see why the CNC Depot ATCs won’t work great with the new EX controller. I have a Centroid Acorn controller, Clearpath servos and the CNC Depot RM40 “Turnkey ATC Spindle Package” on a Pro4860 with the rotary kit and Opt lasers. It all works great together. I think you’d need to investigate whether the wiring in the EX controller is similar to what they used before. That makes the spindle package plug and play, with nice pneumatics built into the VFD box.
If you’ve spent any time on the Centroid Forum, you’ve probably seen a lot of good things about ‘swissi’s Probe App’. That add-on make all kinds of things, including ATC, incredibly user friendly in the CNC12 environment

[Eric]

@GeneralYoda

Do you know if it will work with other ATC spindles like cncdepot’s?

@grossmsj

I can’t see why the CNC Depot ATCs won’t work great with the new EX controller.

Just like our Mach controllers this new EX control uses standard wiring/communication to make the spindle do “spindle things” for example:

A simple relay starts and stops the spindle. 0-10 volts controls the speed of the spindle. It’s all done using our same 14 pin connector too, so if you have one of our VFDs already you can just plug it into our new controller and be off and running:

(This is the Mach controller pinout)

https://www.avidcnc.com/support/instructions/electronics/pnp/manual/20.1/schematics/#14-pin-control-cable

Our software mods for tool changes in the Centroid EX controllers will work with any spindle/router too. At the end of the day all we’re doing is starting/stopping the spindle and controlling the speed.

Our “MTC” system of manual tool height measurement will work with any spindle/router too because all we’re doing is measuring tools.

So in short, if you could use it with our old system it will work with our new system.

@Sergio

Will it be a Hiteco ATC spindle, or a different brand? Curious minds want to know

We’ll have more detail to share on that soon, however I’ll leave you with this quote from Ahren:

@AvidCNC

First up is a “Quick Tool Change” spindle. This will provide the ATC spindle allowing users to quickly change tools with the drawbar using a button on the spindle, and integrates seamlessly with the tool height setter that comes standard on EX controllers.

@AvidCNC

The first round of ATC spindles will be 100% plug and play with our existing 8.7HP VFD controllers, so if you already have our 8.7HP spindle system, you can reuse your VFD controller with the new ATC spindle. If you are planning for a new machine, you can purchase an 8.7HP spindle system now and be ready to add ATC when it’s available (and your 8.7HP spindle can be swapped back in for heavy cutting operations or as a backup spindle any time).

[Connor]

Hey Eric,

So, I built my own controller using LinuxCNC with a Mesa card and I’m using the ClearPATH servo’s.

This is on a 5x10 machine with 12" Z. I did the auto-tune on the X axis, and copied the profiles to the Y1, Y2 and Z. I didn’t use the weights or anything. It looks pretty good. Maybe I’ll go back and tune stuff a bit better. I did weight everything in sections so I can add up the weight.

My question is, Why the 3432P’s vs 3432S ? Maybe the P’s are better for the Screw driven machines, but, you want the S version for rack & pinion. I can push 1000 IPM no problem. Also have HLFB enabled and when a crash happens, the machine goes into instance E-Stop. This was why WHOLE reason I got the servo’s. (This machine is in a Maker Space). I ended up using the same servo for all axis’s. CPM-SDSK-3432S-ELN The Z can do 400IPM no problem. Which is pretty scary.

Machine is setup with a 4HP CNC Depot spindle and a 12 station ATC.

Finishing up the spoil board right now.

[Eric]

I personally didn’t pick the motors, our engineers worked really closely with Teknic to make this pick and tune them. My understanding is that the P’s hold power over a much longer RPM range, and the S’s drop off pretty quickly once the RPMs get higher.

Here’s what it really means though:

That’s a .75" diameter bit cutting at 1.25" depth, single pass with 70% stepover at 800 IPM.

These motors with our custom tuning RIP.

[Connor]

I looked a the torque curves. The S can do around 900 RPM @ 320 constant oz-in, the P’s can do around 1750 @ 209 oz-in. I decided for more torque vs speed. With the way I have mine tuned, I can do a full 1000 IPM and full torque. It’s pretty scary. Maybe going faster would be nice for tool change, but, that’s about it. I have NO idea why anyone would want to run any faster than that on these machines. They’re not rigid enough to take advantage of it. If I run a 1/2" endmill at 175 IPM, I get inconstant hole shapes due to the mass of the gantry. I slow it down they come back into shape. Just my thoughts…

[greg.obj]

@Eric Oh my god… looks incredible

[rockstarsmurf]

@Eric

We have used just about every input and output. We are working on schematics. For ATC we do have a dedicated air pressure input you can use, and there are few outputs that can be repurposed.

I have been eagerly watching AVID’s support site and I saw some general instructions for the EX controller were posted but no schematics yet. Are those still forthcoming?

[Eric]

@rockstarsmurf

Are those still forthcoming?

They are, not sure on the exact timeline however.

[ESchenk]

I’m trying to decide between keeping my setup with NEMA23 steppers and just upgrading to the new controller for the improvements over Mach4, or going all the way to a Servo setup. I don’t really have much trouble with lost steps for most of the work I’m doing, but I am curious if servo’s change the fundemental resolution of the commandable positions of the machine. My thought here is that at least some of the accuracy/resolution is because steppers can only lock on to 200 positions, and it looks like Clearpath servo’s have 800 commandable positions in a rotation. That would seem to potentially lead to higher accuracy, but the backlash and nature of the rack/pinion interface might make that immaterial. Anyone have thoughts / experience here to share?

For most of my work this would not matter, but I do some small scale metal working where increased resolution and accuracy would be useful, and maybe that would be enough reason for me to spend the money to switch to servos.

Cheers,

Eric

[Eric]

@ESchenk

upgrading to the new controller for the improvements over Mach4

This alone is going to give you a lot more performance and functionality.

@ESchenk

or going all the way to a Servo setup

Both our steppers and servos use the same mechanical system. If it were me I’d move away from the Nema 23s. Nema 34s on this new system perform great. Servos are even better. They’re faster, stronger, and closed loop.

All three systems have great positional accuracy (thanks to 2000 steps per rev X ~3 on steppers) and the high resolution of the servos. On servos we use ClearPaths hard stop homing to make homing even more accurate.

Honestly I think Nema 34s are very good value for money, but they are still open loop. If you can swing I often live by the “by once cry once” motto. If you can swing it you’ll never regret buying a servo system.