What load and unload rpm are you running, and what’s your engage feed rate, Jim?
My load/unload are 1450/1500 currently. I don’t have a great tachometer, but the strobe app and sound spectrum analyzer apps on my cell phone say my spindle runs about 10% faster than what I set, so these are more like1600/1650 probably.
I didn’t measure a big difference on torque based on rpm, so I’ll probably back off on the rpm at some point. I’m hoping the new macros will give more torque with less rpm.
I adjusted the plunge rate so that when engaging the nut it neither depressed the nut, nor pulled it up. That turned out to be 50ipm (1270mm/min).
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Finished my reliability testing on the RapidChange ATC.
One last bit of testing and I’ll do a wrapup and be done.
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Hi Jim, I’m following along with interest have you tryout your dust shoes with the RC or will you need something special for this?
Most regular dust shoes don’t work with most ATCs.
Since I don’t plan to use this one in full automation mode (I like to keep my toolpaths seperate), but will likely just use the ATC to changeout tools easier, I can just remove/install the dust shoe. However, I’m also thinking about designing one where the brush/shoe can be docked in a holder by the CNC when the ATC is being used. Hopefully I’ll have time to design and build that sometime soon. I want to write a Mach4 screen for the ATC first so I have all the control by buttons instead of using the MDI window all the time.
Useful video, @jjneeb - thanks.
Thanks for taking the time to make and post the video and include the torque info!!!
Greetings to the group. I just ordered an 8 position RapidChange ATC in the deluxe version so am starting the modifications I will need to make to use it. I have a 4hp spindle that uses the Delta vfd022el21a controller. I am currently looking at adding reverse and setting the minimum speed.
I am a retired embedded systems engineer so have an innate need to understand, not just do rote changes.
On the reverse I have seen posts suggesting the use of a relay to send the RUN signal from the controller to either the MI1 FWD/STOP or the MI2 REV/STOP input on the VFD. That seems overly complicated as it is a simple change to the programming of the VFD (Parameter 04.04 changed from 0 to 1) changes the VFD so MI1 is RUN/STOP and MI2 is FWD/REV. As no relay is involved and the wiring is direct this seems simpler. Comments on this desired and welcome.
On the minimum speed I have seen @Bernmc 's comments about parameters 01.08 and 04-12 as well as changing the machine.ini file… I need to pull a few parameters out of the VFD (those as well as 01.00) to understand what is being suggested. Plan to post my thoughts for comments and suggestion once I have worked through all that.
Thanks!!
Bill
Either way you do it, you need two relays and two inputs on the VFD.
@brockert - as Jim says, it’s still two relays.
The standard pin 32/33 out on the avid ESS is an output from an on board relay.
The other outputs are signal outputs not relays. I guess they might have enough to trigger the VFD, but as far as I’m aware you really want to isolate the VFD signals from the ESS board. Jim explained why in the wiring for reverse thread.
You’ll use the onboard relay out to send one signal to M1- whether it’s run/stop or run fwd, and you need a relay on a 2nd output to send 5V to M2, whether this one is for fwd/rvs, or run rvs
@jjneeb and @Bernmc… absolutely correct now that I get a bit more into it. Was initially, and wrongly, assuming Avid use the Warp9 breakout board. Had stuff piled in front of the electronics cabinet and once I was in there I see that it is custom and only has the relay for the FWD/Off.
Parts are ordered to add the relay.
Thank you gentlemen for your input, it got me on the right track.
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Looks like my cartridge should be delivered early this week with odds and ends parts showing up soon after. Pretty excited to start playing with this.
Been watching alot of videos and reading the forums and finding the near universal concern is damage to the spindle threads due to either cross threading or just flat wear. Frankly I was already worrying about that even with hand threading and tightening. Thinking a bit about this the I had the idea of using sacrificial threads so if the problem develops it is an easy repair. A bit of reseach on this lead me to collet adapters which are available in ER20 to ER20. Typical example would be amazon asin B0BW37DMM3. This looks like it will eat up maybe an inch on the z axis and along with that will be a little magnification of ant play in the system. I am going to give this a try as the advantages seem to outweigh those factors.
I have done about 400 load/unload cycles on mine now. I had some alignment issues in the beginning where I didn’t have the magazine aligned with my Y axis very well. This lead to about a dozen cross thread events, and none of them put any bur or anything on the threads of the collet or spindle that I could feel with a fingernail. Now I did hear from one person who damaged them, but I’m pretty sure he was still running at the 6-7k rpm min that the AVID VFD is programmed to from the factory, instead of the 1500 rpm speed you are supposed to use.
Once I got everything aligned properly, I ran my last 100 load/unloads without a single error of any kind.
I finally worked through all my testing of the RapidChange ATC. This is my final review of this tool.
I think this is a solid, reliable addition to the AVID CNC.
Just curious what spindle everyone is using? I have the 4hp Hiteco from Avid and when I lowered it into place in rapidchange slot 1 it broke the LED off before bottoming. I am cussing at myself for not spotting this before it happened but got to scratching my head as to why no one else had run into the problem (yet).
I will interact with Rapidchange to see what part I need to fix the damage (minor) .
I had decided I would end up with a 6 slot unit with the tool setter in one of the problem slots then the ER-20 to ER-20 collet adapters that I had ordered with the plan of using them as sacrificial threads on the spindle arrived and that appears to be a solution. The adapter adds about an inch to the bottom of the spindle so I should have plenty of clearance .
I’m using the 4 hp hiteco as well. Mine reaches into the pocket, even with the AVID dust shoe base still mounted. What part of it hit the LED, or was the spindle just not aligned to the pocket?
Mine has a lot of scars on it from the testing. I had a lot of oopses when jogging around it and doing different tests, and a couple of brainfarts when I was using the MDI window as well.
I think I figured this out. Don sent me the link for the Adafruit path block sensors they are using. The ones he sent me the link for uses 3mm LED / sensor and is rated to 10". The LED / sensor on my 8 port unit measure 5mm the change having been made to accommodate the extra distance. Looking at the pictures the 5mm LED / sensor definitely stick out a bit more than the 3mm ones and I think that was just enough to cause the issue. The replacement is on order and I did solve the problem by using the ER20 to ER20 collet adapter. In addition to keeping the body of the spindle from coming close to the sensor it also added enough height that I can use my existing dust shoe as the frame of it now misses the ends of the magazine. Win win.
I did not see it happen, I heard it happen then spotted what had gotten damaged. I had the collet perfectly aligned in hole 1 and was lowering it to determine the Z contact depth when I heard a snap then noticed the LED was broke off. I do not believe I made an opps, I think it is just the slight bit more stick out of the 5mm LEDs.
With the exception of needing to replace the LED on the tool sensor have everything working well and have run a job with the setup. At this point I am being like Jim and using it as a convenience and am very happy to have done the upgrade to the machine.
I spent a bit of time to add buttons for the macro calls into the Avid tool tabs. This is what I come up with so far…
The new buttons are hooked to the associated RapidChange macros using the mc.mcCntlGcodeExecuteWait(inst, “Mxxx”). The new LED is the status of the cover, red for closed, green for open, and its status is associated with the ESS output controlling the cover so it will have the correct color regardless of where the open / close command originated.
I plan to write a couple more macros that will support manual removal of the dust shoe prior to tool change and replacement after tool change. The current plan is to move to the MTC location, ask the operator to remove the dust shoe and continue after operator supplied input. After the new tool has been loaded it will again move to the MTC location, ask the operator to replace the dust shoe then continue after operator supplied input.
This last part should simplify adding automatic dust shoe removal and replacement once I figure out a good method to park the shoe.
In case you have not noticed I am having fun LOL!!
Are you doing a homing check before the gcode execute? It’s not built into any of the rapid change macros afik…