Hi all! Here’s a video documenting the setup of my Automatic Tool Changer (ATC) on my Avid Pro 4x8 machine. I have a HITECO spindle, but I also discuss the popular CNC Depot S30C spindle. I go into some diagrams for pneumatics, and the extra things I added to my spindle control box to make it a little better than the default CNC Depot. I also have a basic schematic for adding a button on the side of an S30C to open and close the drawbar. Let me know what you think! The next video will be about building the ATC rack…then onto the software setup.
Great presentation! Clear, easy to follow and definitely something I’ll bookmark for when I get ready to upgrade my spindle. I don’t need a full ATC, but being able to change between tools much faster (even when doing it manually) would be quite nice!
Thanks! Yeah, fast tool changes are really handy. If you do get an ATC, adding on the rack isn’t too much more work – I’m working on some directions on how to make one out of wood.
I may be getting ready to do a big face palm here…
One of the reasons I hadn’t gone with a tool changer setup is due to the fact that I’ve got a 4’x8’ machine and I’ve got it split 1/2 for plasma, 1/8 for rotary (sunk parallel to ‘x’) and 3/8 for spindle work. I just didn’t want to give up an inch for the intrusion of a tool rack. (Yup, I’ve seen motorized retractable tool racks, sigh.)
The possible face palm, that because AVID helped me configure this machine for the ‘Dual-Z’ axis option, I’ve got the extra wide gantry. I’ll likely have to get down to the garage with a tape measure, after work, but I may very well be able to put a tool rack well outside of the work envelope under the over-hang created when the Plasma torch is wanting to use the full extent of it’s travel.
The really sad part here, is that now that I’m thinking about it, I think someone might have mentioned this previously (I might have even commented on it at the time) and I’ve just forgotten with time. Sigh, … “don’t get old”
I am kind of faking it in here with paint on top of this image from the assembly process:
First place I put the tool rack, actually. I was loathed to take any of that soooooper expensive work envelop.
Then I made one that was part of the plasma head. It made for extremely fast tool changes but limited tool capacity. The weight on the X axis made for terrible cut quality. The entire X axis would flex on the load.
The last two was a belt driven system like on a Doosan and a carousel. Why I chose the carousel was the cost vs complexity.
Something to keep in mind on tool “wine racks” is the back of the X axis carriage and the Z axis creates a 5 inch wider envelop loss than you first realize. So mounting the tool holder clamp posts on the X axis takes more room than your idea of mounting them in that space along the Y axis.
My problem with the Y axis mounting was, what exactly do you mount it to? I ended up having to add legs on the rack and rods that kept the rack stationary. My implementation wasn’t the best and it started getting in the way when loading and access the work envelop.
Just some thoughts!
PS. I even have a CAD of one that hung off the end off the gantry on that same side but it was still way too heavy.
Oh yeah, that could definitely work! If your router area is in the front of the machine you could also mount it up high and out of the work area (depending on what you cut…). In the next video I’m going to go over that possibility as an option.
Corbin, this is a fantastic and incredibly thorough build log. Thank you so much for posting all of this. I really want to convert my machine and your guides are giving me the confidence to do it! I spoke with Hiteco before I actually saw these videos and asked them about their QE-1F 6.6/12 24 I30 spindle. It looks identical, except that it is 6.6 kw and weighs 3kg more. I know in your video you state the QD-1F4/12 is about the heaviest avid recommends. Do you know what the max weight rating is? I plan to do a good amount of slab flattening as well as cabinetry on this machine. I ask mainly because when I got pricing from Hiteco, they told me the 6.6 was only $75 more than the 4kw one ($4775 for the 6kw)
Assuming all the internal wiring for all the pins is the same as the 4kw, would there be any issues with going with the 6.6 as far as following along your videos for guides? Again, thanks for this video series, it is very thorough and well done!
Hey Russ,
CNC Depot recently released their own spindles that are up to 7 HP. I would really consider one of those, as they are lighter. I was told by Avid that 50 pounds is the max gantry weight, and I specifically asked them about the QD-1F spindle. I was worried about weight, but I haven’t noticed any sagging issues. I still think lighter is better, but then again, mass sometimes helps in other areas.
I’ve also seen some of CNC Depot’s new boxes, and they are setup way more completely than what I got.
That’s good to know. So basically for a few hundred $ more (or $1,000), it’s a plug and play instead of playing around with the wires. I am stuck holding onto the 8.7hp spindle I have unless I find a buyer, so maybe it would be for the best to just pack that up in a box with the VFD so that if I ever need to swap back, I don’t have to open up the VFD and re-wire anything–I could just swap out the VFD and I’m back in business. Decisions, decisions… Thanks for the response!
Russ
Keep in mind the minimum pre-tax/shipping price of the RM70 AVID bundle is $6k- add to that any necessary tubing, fixtures, desiccation, and compressor, and you’re closer to $7k. Add $300 if you want ceramic bearings.
Yeah, that’s getting up there. Hiteco said that $4775 was the delivered price, so I will assume that includes sales tax as well, which is not nothing. I think ultimately, I will go with the hiteco, and probably the 4kw since it stays within the weight limits, and I will know that I can wire it exactly as Corbin has shown. I have a decent compressor, so just the air lines and dryer would hopefully be all I need to get it up and running on the hardware side of things, as well as tool forks, etc… Plus, Hiteco’s lead time is 4-6 weeks as opposed to CNC depot’s 8-9 week right now.
EDIT: I’m dumb and have too many things going on today! If the machine’s spindle weight limit is 50lbs then the 6.6kw hiteco clears it by a few lbs and so as long as the wiring is the same I’ll plan to go with that one
Do you take any steps to restrict the work area so that the corner of the z-axis doesn’t come down on the tool rack during a job? And how do you make sure that when putting a tool back, it doesn’t take a route where the current bit runs into the toolholders still in the rack?
I don’t restrict the work area, which could be an issue if you are doing work low and close to the rack; the back of the spindle could hit the rack at a certain point. Some people address this by adjusting the soft limits on the machine to make sure it never hits the rack. Then, when a tool change happens, they disable soft limits and let the change happen. You really have to make sure you don’t accidentally go past the hard limits when doing the change.
When putting a tool back, the path is to go in front of the empty spot at z-max, then go back to the rack and put it down. This avoids collisions. Previously, I was doing a shortest path, which could cause an issue if the bit was at the edge of the table close to the rack. Of course…your z travel has to be high enough to clear the tool rack when the tool is in it.
I have a vertical table and put my tool rack at the front. This is next to the vertical table (I don’t use the full horizontal width). Most of the time the tool rack is never in play. But when I’m doing something in the vertical table there is a good chance the spindle/tool will smash into the tool rack. It’s a virtual certainty in some cases.
What I’ve done is create a second post-processor (Centroid_safe). The primary feature is a G30 move (set to the middle of the table) before and after any tool changes. This makes the spindle come to the tool rack in a safe direction. I use this PP whenever I’m doing work at the front of the table.
